Princeton University President Shirley M. Tilghman

Chartered in 1746, Princeton University is one of the most respected universities in the United States and even in the world. As the fourth oldest university in America and a member of Ivy League, Princeton University seeks to achieve the highest levels of distinction in the discovery and transmission of knowledge and understanding. The US News and World Report has ranked the University every year as the best national university in America since 2001.

Recently Yong Tang, People's Daily Washington-based correspondent conducted an exclusive interview with Princeton University President Shirley M. Tilghman in her office.

"I don't take the ranking too seriously"

Yong Tang: How many consecutive years has Princeton been ranked the best national university in America by the US News and World Report? I know you are ranked the best again in 2006.

Tilghman: I don't know the answer, but Princeton has been ranked number one for all the years that I have been the President. So at least five years.

Yong Tang: It seems that every time Princeton has been ranked the same with Harvard.

Tilghman: Yes, either we've been number one alone or we've been tied with Harvard.

Yong Tang: How do you feel about this as the President?

Tilghman: Because I think the methodology used to produce this ranking is imperfect, I don't take the ranking too seriously. It is an honor, but I think if we were to drop to number two or to number three, I suspect that would not be because anything has really changed at Princeton. I think this is an imperfect measurement; it would be a mistake to take it too seriously.

Yong Tang: Someone said there is a strong tradition of prejudice against women here. Princeton was a university for male students until 1969. Its undergraduate clubs didn't accept female students until then. However you have been elected president here, the first female president on the Princeton campus since it's founding. What does this job mean for you?

Tilghman: I think it reflects the fact that while Princeton has a very long and distinguished history as an all-male college, the University also has a great tradition of change. I was elected Princeton's President just 30 years after the first women started attending Princeton. The fact that the institution could change so radically in 30 years is a testament to the quality of the place.

Yong Tang: You have promoted a number of middle-level female administrators since you took office. Are you feeling happy with their current work?

Tilghman: I am, very much so.

Yong Tang: What suggestions will you give for career-minded female students?

Tilghman: First, find the thing you really feel passionate about. That is probably the most important thing. In order to succeed in a career, you have to care about what you are doing. Second, you have to be prepared to make some sacrifices. My generation was told women could have everything. They could have a rich family life, they could have a rich work life and they could have children. I think people who are trying to do that have discovered that it is not that simple. In order to really succeed, you have to work very hard and be very dedicated.

Yong Tang: You had two years of secondary school teaching in Sierra Leone, West Africa. It is a very unique experience. How does this experience influence your life and your outlook?

Tilghman: In two ways. I learned from that experience that I love teaching. The other is I learned how difficult it is to understand another culture until you live in that culture. That is one of the reasons why Princeton encourages its students to study outside the United States.

Yong Tang: But somebody says Princeton doesn't encourage its students to study overseas or in other American universities during their stay here?

Tilghman: It certainly used to be true.

Yong Tang: Because here is the best?

Tilghman: Exactly. But that is no longer true. We now recognize the benefit that derives from students studying outside the United States.

Yong Tang: Because of the globalization?

Tilghman: Exactly.

Yong Tang: You are a trustee of Google. Are you paid for this job?

Tilghman: Not yet. But eventually, I will receive stock in the company.

Yong Tang: Someone may say there is an interest conflict between the two different roles, the trustee of Google and Princeton President?

Tilghman: I don't think there is. Being a part of corporation board is a very good experience for university presidents. You learn a lot about governance. You learn a lot about how the private sector works. I am learning tremendously as a member of the Google board. In circumstances where Princeton may be in a negotiation with Google over something, I recuse myself. So I play no role in any decisions the University makes with regard to Google. So there is no conflict.

Yong Tang: You once said you are too busy to even have hairdressing. Do you regret about this as a professional lady?

Tilghman: (Laugh) No, I don't regret it. You have to find what can give you pleasure. What gave me pleasure was the scientific research I was conducting, teaching, and raising my children. The fact that I didn't have a lot of time for anything else didn't really bother me.

Yong Tang: There is an interesting story about the Princeton Alma mater. The old Alma mater was called Old Nassau. It went like this: in praise of Old Nassau, we sing, my boys. Our sons will contribute their life. But the Alma mater was later revised like this: in praise of Old Nassau, we sing, our hearts will give, while we shall live, Three cheers for Old Nassau. Is that true?

Tilghman: The song was changed when women students began attending the University.

Yong Tang: Were you involved in changing the song?

Tilghman: This happened well before I became the President.

"You particularly can't hide in a field that is as exciting as stem cells"

Yong Tang: You are a famous molecular biologist who has made a number of groundbreaking discoveries. You were one of advisors on the Human Genome Project. There is big scandal in South Korea where Huang Yuxi, the father of South Korean Stem Cell research, has been found cheating. How do you think of this event? How can you guarantee the integrity of academic research at Princeton?

Tilghman: I agree that it is an extremely unfortunate thing that happened with Dr. Huang. I once met him when I was in South Korea. This happens in every branch of science. Luckily it is quite rare that someone will forge scientific results. There is not a great deal you can do to prevent it from happening, but I think these are quickly detected. Science is a process in which some people's scientific results are reproduced by other people, and that kind of forgery is always found out.

Yong Tang: Nobody can hide forever.

Tilghman: You can't hide forever. You particularly can't hide in a field that is as exciting as stem cells. You just can't hide. Dr. Huang produced his result. Scientists all over the world are trying to replicate what he has done. Once it became clear that no one was able to replicate his results, it was going to be a very short period of time before he was found out.

Yong Tang: It is very strange why Dr. Huang still did that kind of thing since he is a famous professor already.

Tilghman: I don't know the answer to that. You would have to ask Professor Huang himself. But I think what happens when you get a lot of fame, the pressure to continue to produce builds and builds and builds. If you are not strong, you can fall victim to the pressure.

Yong Tang: This scandal can be an alarming bell especially for famous scientists.

Tilghman: Yes, the vast majority of famous scientists resist this very successfully. Professor Huang apparently did not.

"Small is beautiful"

Yong Tang: People like to use four words to describe world class universities: Profound in terms of research, old in terms of history, big in terms of student and faculty size, comprehensive in terms of subjects. Princeton, frankly speaking, is neither big nor comprehensive. It is a mini university. But Princeton enjoys an extremely high academic reputation. Your graduates are well respected all over the world. How do you achieve this?

Tilghman: I think our small size and our focus, which is the opposite of comprehensive, are our great strengths.

Yong Tang: Small is beautiful?

Tilghman: Yes, small is beautiful. Because we do not try to do everything, we do not try to do medicine, law or business or veterinary medicine. We focus all of our attention and all of our resources on just two things: one is undergraduate education, the other is very scholarly graduate education. Because we can really focus on those two things, we do both of them extremely well.

Yong Tang: In order to achieve world-class status, many Chinese universities are expanding rapidly, enrolling more and more students and setting up more and more secondary colleges and even merging with other universities. How do you think of this trend in China?

Tilghman: I do know that Chinese universities are expanding rapidly. I think it is a natural response to the kind of explosive growth of the Chinese economy that has been happening over the last ten years. So I understand why it is happening. I think if I were the President of one of those rapidly expanding universities in China, I would be very worried about whether you can sustain the same quality of education as you expand the number of students and the number of faculty. I would be constantly trying to balance quality versus expansion.

Yong Tang: Unfortunately many people say the quality of undergraduate education in China is worsening. I know Princeton is famous for its undergraduate education. You have 4500 undergraduates and 1800 graduate students. The number of undergraduates is relatively small compared with other top research universities. Why don't you increase the number of graduates?

Tilghman: In fact we are increasing the number of undergraduates. We are in the middle of about an 11% expansion, which may not sound like a lot by Chinese standards. But by our standards, we have not had an expansion in 35 years. So this is a major undertaking for us. We have also been expanding the size of the Graduate School very slowly but very continuously over the last couple of decades. But we are maintaining the balance. We are trying to increase the size of the student body but at the same time guarantee that the larger student body will receive the same quality education as the smaller student body.

Yong Tang: What is the most important method to maintain the same high quality undergraduate education?

Tilghman: I think of two things. One is the quality of the faculty. The other is the commitment of the faculty to teaching.

Yong Tang: That means the faculty should not spend too much on research?

Tilghman: I would put it in a different way. I wouldn't say don't spend too much time on research. I would say that we are not a research institution, not like Rockefeller University and Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory. Those are institutions whose primary purpose is to conduct research. We are a research university, which means that our fundamental role is education. One of the things we do very well is that we have an educational philosophy that combines teaching and research. That requires every faculty member to participate in the teaching mission of the University.

Yong Tang: Does Princeton differ remarkably from other Ivy League universities in this regard?

Tilghman: I would say among the Ivy League universities, Princeton is known to be the one that pays the closest attention to the quality of undergraduate education.

"I have never seen students walking out of the Gate until commencement"

Yong Tang: You once said adding more new subjects will go against the tradition and divert the school's attention. Even if you are going to add a new specialty, that specialty seems having nothing to do with the job market. Can you explain why?

Tilghman: Let me give an example. Last November we created the Princeton Institute for Neuroscience. Why did we decide to go very significantly into the neurological sciences? It is partly because if you think about what is going to happen in the next one hundred years, in life science, the study of brain is going to be one of the most exciting areas of biology. The other reason is that we have a lot of students who are absolutely fascinated by the brain and want to study neurological science.

Now you can say are we preparing future neurological scientists? Absolutely! But in addition, some of the undergraduate students in neurological science will go on to become lawyers and teachers and doctors and do other things as well. So in teaching them about one of the most exciting fields of biology, we are, to a certain extent, preparing them for future careers.

Yong Tang: Princeton pays extremely high attention to basic theory research. This cannot be challenged by any other Ivy League universities. Theory research is likely to produce bookworms. But your students are not bookworms at all. They are very creative thinkers and doers. How does Princeton combine theory with reality so perfectly?

Tilghman: (Laugh) It is a good question because your premise of the question is correct. We spend a large amount of time on the more theoretical side of research. I would say at the undergraduate level we believe in the form of education which begins with breadth of education within the first two years, followed by depth in the last two years. If it is in theory, it is also being underpinned by much broader exposure to the ideas of the 21st century. The combination of reality and theory, and depth and breadth of education prepares our students very effectively to go out to be leaders, which is often what Princeton students end up doing.

Yong Tang: Can you use a few brief words to describe what is the most unique about Princeton? What is the secret of success to survive and prosper among so many top universities in America?

Tilghman: Commitment to excellence. Commitment to education. The creation of a sense of community which lasts for a lifetime.

Yong Tang: I have been here twice and I have seen so many old buildings. It seems to visitors that this university belongs to the past. One student said at Princeton change is not change, it is a new tradition. How do you think of the relations between tradition and innovation?

Tilghman: I think it is one of the things which makes living in universities like this wonderful. There is a continuity between buildings like Nassau Hall, which is very old and venerable, and new buildings. Just five hundred yards away from Nassau Hall, we are building a revolutionary science library with steel and glass, which looks completely different from this building. It goes back to a commitment to excellence, to be the best you can be. The old traditions and the new traditions we are creating with the Lewis Library and neurological science are done with the aim of creating excellence that will last and become a new tradition.

Yong Tang: There is a story about FitzRandolph Gate here. It was closed until the 1960s when some graduates asked the school authority to open the Gate forever, a gesture of openness to the outside world. After that freshmen will go into the Gate while graduates will go out of the Gate as a kind of ceremony. Nobody will go through that Gate any other time during their stay here because they believe in doing so they would not be able to graduate. It is a superstition. Isn't it?

Tilghman: Yes, it is a superstition.

Yong Tang: Is this story true? What does this story imply?

Tilghman: Yes, both stories are true. The Gate was opened in 1970. This was a very tumultuous time in American history. It was during Vietnam War, it was during the civil rights movement. 1970 was right after Kent State when the college students were killed. There was an intense engagement of students with the world outside Princeton. So the opening of the Gate was symbolic. It was meant to be a way of saying Princeton cannot hide from this tumultuous world and it should be engaged with it. The tradition of not walking out of the FitzRandolph Gate is an older one. The Gate was only opened at Reunions and Commencement. When we opened the Gate continuously, it was possible to walk out of the Gate. But I have never seen students walking out of the Gate until commencement.

Yong Tang: How about yourself?

Tilghman: I have graduated so I can walk out of the Gate. (Laugh)

Yong Tang: Whenever there is a 50th anniversary, Princeton will invite American President to attend and make a speech. President Clinton was invited to do this during the 250th anniversary ceremony. Someone said it is a great honor given by Princeton to Presidents of the United States of America. Not vice versa. Do you also think so?

Tilghman: I agree with you but I think it is an honor for both.

Yong Tang: Princeton will offer financial assistance to 90% of its students and the funding is quite generous. Is that true? Is the assistance a great relief to the financial burden of students?

Tilghman: 55% of students get financial assistance. Of course, you could say it is 100% because even those students who are paying the full fee, are not paying the whole cost of their education. But to those we give financial aid, it is 55%.

Yong Tang: What is your standard on this? Merit based or need based?

Tilghman: Need based. No financial assistance is given based on merit.

Yong Tang: Why not?

Tilghman: Because we think the best use of our resources, in the form of financial aid dollars, is to make it possible that every talented student who is capable of being accepted at Princeton and doing the work should be able to come whether they can pay or not. That is our highest priority. It is to create equal opportunity.

Yong Tang: But someone said Ivy League is a club for the rich family only. Do you think so?

Tilghman: No, because half of our students cannot afford to attend unless we help them. The average aid that we give to students now is about 27,000 dollars a year per student.

Yong Tang: How many Chinese students get paid by the university?

Tilghman: I have no answer to that, but we have a very substantial number of Chinese students, particularly in the Graduate School. For those students, 100% are being supported by the University because we support 100% of our graduate students.

"Ensure that each student has the individual attention that he deserves"

Yong Tang: Thanks to the small size of the university, the undergraduates interact with their professors much more closely here than in other Ivy League members. In so doing teaching and learning could be fostered mutually. I know there is an afternoon tea party at the Math Department where students can talk freely with their instructors. Can you talk a little bit more about this?

Tilghman: It is a very old tradition of the Math Department to have afternoon tea.

Yong Tang: How about other departments?

Tilghman: It is not a standard across all the departments. There are other departments which have this kind of get-together. But in the Math Department I think it is a daily event that they get together for tea in the afternoon.

Yong Tang: What kind of policies has the university authority taken to encourage this kind of interactions?

Tilghman: There are many many steps we take to make sure those kinds of interactions happen. For example, one of the things we have done over the last 20 years is to create a freshmen seminar program that would bring freshmen, usually no more than 10 or 12, together with the faculty members in seminars at the beginning of their freshman year. We have faculty masters and faculty fellows in residential colleges who take meals in the colleges with students. We encourage all faculties to have office hours every week so that students can come and speak with the professor after class and ask questions and get help with work. We even have faculty fellows in athletic teams so that student athletes have a faculty member who is their advisor. I could go on and on.

Yong Tang: At Princeton every week undergraduate students can participate in a small class, about 10 to 15 students per class, to brush up what they have learned in the last week. The class is led by their professors or assistant professors. It is the most popular program among undergraduates. The system was established by Wilson, former Presidents of both Princeton and US. What is the benefit of doing this?

Tilghman: I think it goes back to your former question. It brings students in close proximity with members of the faculty, with graduate assistants. In larger classes, it is impossible for professors to do each one of the precepts. We ask graduate students and lecturers to serve as preceptors, in order to ensure that each student has the individual attention that he or she deserves.

Yong Tang: Are there any similar programs in other American top universities?

Tilghman: Yes, other universities have adopted the Wilson system.

Yong Tang: I know there are 11 Eating Clubs at Princeton. Junior students will become one member of those clubs instead of dining in the University dining room. It is the most important part of their social activities. What is the benefit of doing this?

Tilghman: I think the creation of the smaller community. Each one of those Eating Clubs has 120 to 200 members. It is a way to create a smaller community of friends. It is a way to have social space. The clubs are largely used for parties, which is harder for us to do in residential colleges.

Yong Tang: Are Eating Clubs organized by the university authority or by students themselves?

Tilghman: They are completely private organizations. They are privately owned and privately managed by students and graduates of the Eating Clubs.

Yong Tang: Is there any encouragement from the university authority?

Tilghman: There are certainly interactions between the Eating Clubs and the University. There are indirect financial benefits from the University, but the Eating Clubs are proud of their independence.

Yong Tang: Someone says the teaching style here belongs to European style. What does that mean? What is the difference between European style and American style?

Tilghman: We are somewhere between the European style, for example, Oxford and Cambridge, and many other American universities. I think "European style" means individual attention, the one student/one faculty member tutorial system. At Princeton, we require juniors and seniors to do independent work. That is a time when there is one-on-one work between the faculty members and the students. For example, I have a student coming to see me after we finish the interview to work on his senior thesis.

Yong Tang: Do you still have students?

Tilghman: Yes, I still have students.

Yong Tang: How come! You are so busy.

Tilghman: Well, I enjoy it.

Yong Tang: Maybe there is a lot of conflict on your schedule?

Tilghman: There is a lot of pressure on my time schedule. But I enjoy teaching, so I continue to do it.

Yong Tang: As far as you know, how many American university presidents who still teach just like you?

Tilghman: I don't think there are many. Not very many.

"60% of all living alumni give to Princeton every year"

Yong Tang: Since the founding of Princeton the university has attracted numerous talented people to teach here. They include Einstein, Fengnuo Yiman, Daniel Kahneman. Some Chinese scientists like Hua Luogen, Jiang Boju, Li Zhendao, Yang Zhenling also once taught and did research here. How does Princeton attract talented people to teach here?

Tilghman: We have a salary ceiling that doesn't allow us to attract faculty members using high salaries. So if you ask what attracts faculty members to Princeton, I think there are two things: one is the quality of their colleagues, and the quality of the students they will teach. Also, Princeton is a wonderful town to raise children. Obviously, that matters to a lot of people.

Yong Tang: Many brilliant leaders in whatever field were educated here. They include governors, Hollywood superstars, two US Presidents and 8 Nobel Prize winners for physics. Have these famous graduates done something to help or reward Princeton?

Tilghman: Many of our alumni serve Princeton in two important ways, one is as a part of governance, they serve on advisory councils or on the Board of Trustees. James Baker, former US Secretary of State, served on our Board of Trustees. Donald Rumsfeld, the current Secretary of Defense, served on our Board of Trustees. Paul Sarbanes, the senator from Maryland, currently serves on our Board of Trustees. The other is that many many Princeton alumni give very generously to the University financially every year. 60% of all living alumni give to Princeton every year. It is a very high percentage.

Yong Tang: Who is the biggest donor so far?

Tilghman: Right now the biggest donor is Peter B. Lewis from the class of 1955 who has just given 101 million dollars to support the creative and performing arts. He has also supported the Genomics Institute, and the Peter B. Lewis Science Library; he is just enormously generous.

Yong Tang: Do you have any Chinese donors?

Tilghman: Yes, Gordon Hu from Hong Kong. He is an alumnus from our Engineering School, Class of 1958. He is extremely generous to the University. In the last campaign, Gordon Hu pledged to give 100 million dollars to the Engineering School. So he has been enormously generous to the University over time.

Yong Tang: How do you persuade your alumni to give? Maybe you don't need to persuade. If they want to give, they give. If they don't, you can't persuade them.

Tilghman: Exactly. I think Gordon Hu is a perfect example of someone who is naturally generous. So is Peter B, Lewis.

Yong Tang: Maybe sometimes alumni will be forced to give only because some other alumni have given.

Tilghman: There may be some peer pressure. But I think most donors believe they have received a remarkable education here and it has served them well. They want to make sure the next generation receives the same quality education.

We always come in the top five even though we don't have a law school

Yong Tang: Princeton has no school of business, no school of law and no school of medicine. They are the most popular schools today and also very profit making. Why don't you have them?

Tilghman: We don't have those schools because I think those schools would distract us from what we see as our primary mission, which is undergraduate and Ph.D. education.

Yong Tang: Does Princeton have any financial problems without those three professional schools?

Tilghman: I think there is always pressure on the finances of the University. We are always trying to do the very most we can with the resources we have. But I would say we are in a much better financial position than most universities in this country.

Yong Tang: So you don't need extra money.

Tilghman: Oh, yes we do, because our University has to continue to expand. Neuroscience is just one example of something that we were not doing five years ago. We are trying to do it extremely well. That takes a lot of resources.

Yong Tang: In the near future do you have any plans to set up the three professional schools?

Tilghman: Not in the near future.

Yong Tang: Maybe someday?

Tilghman: Maybe someday. You can never say never, or tie the hands of your successors. But certainly during my term I have no plan for that.

Yong Tang: I guess if Princeton has these three professional schools, they would be ranked one of the best in America also.

Tilghman: There is a funny story. If you do a survey in the United States of what is the best law school, we always come in the top five.

Yong Tang: Really? But you don't have a law school.

Tilghman: Exactly! We don't even need to have one, we are considered one of the best. (Laugh). I think people just assume that if we have one, it must be very good.

Yong Tang: Maybe it is very difficult for your Chinese counterparts to understand that. If they were you, they would do anything they can to get more money so that they could put more resources on research and teaching.

Tilghman:I think it is not only Chinese university presidents who are struggling. If you go to Canada, my home country, or if you go to the UK, you will see exactly the same problem. Those universities are almost 100% dependent upon the government. They are struggling financially. But private universities in the United States are not as dependent, because we have a guaranteed source of income from the endowment. If you don't invest them well, of course you can squander it. But if you invest the resources well, they are a highly dependable source of income. So whether the government is generous or not generous, it has very little impact on us.

Yong Tang: So you don't get any funding from the government?

Tilghman: We do. Almost none from the state. The State of New Jersey just announced a new budget where they are cutting higher education funds, which doesn't affect us so much but does affect the state universities. We do receive a lot of federal dollars but those are all dollars that we compete for to support research, for example, from the National Institutes of Health and the National Science Foundation.

Yong Tang: A friend said to me if you want to get federal dollars, you have to do public relations?

Tilghman: It is not my experience as a scientist. In order to receive federal funds and compete successfully for them, you have to have good ideas and do good science.

Yong Tang: Enough? Is a strong personal relations building with the government officials necessary?

Tilghman: No. I think this is one system which works extremely well in this country. And it is fair.

Chinese students have "fire in the belly"

Yong Tang: Since 1893 the University has set up an honors system for students. According to the system, all the written exams here are conducted without supervision of teachers. It solely depends upon the self-discipline of students. How does this system work?

Tilghman: It works reasonably well. Every student coming to the University understands that they have to conduct themselves in an honorable manner. We hold them accountable. We are very tough on students who are caught cheating. If they were caught once, they would have to leave for a year. If they were caught the second time, they leave permanently. We do not allow people who are caught cheating to stay. The University of Virginia has a very similar honors system.

Yong Tang: A figure says Chinese students here are about 1/5 of the overall foreign students population, making students from Mainland China the largest group among foreign students here. Why is Princeton so attractive to Chinese students? What are their major specialties?

Tilghman: Yes, it is true predominantly in science and engineering. I don't think it is because they are the best disciplines in the University, it is just because of the interest of Chinese students. A number of them come from Qinghua University and Peking University. Because they know they could get a very, very good education here.

Yong Tang: How do you mark the performance of Chinese students?

Tilghman: I think they are doing extremely well, in my experience. The biggest struggle they have is with English. Those who come with excellent English skills to begin with, can take off immediately. Those who come with poor English usually would have to spend a year to improve their English to a point where they could really participate fully.

Yong Tang: What impressed you most?

Tilghman: Ambitious! Prepared to work hard. A sort of hunger. I think it is good. To succeed, you have to have what I call "fire in the belly," meaning strong passion. I found Chinese students have "fire in the belly."

Yong Tang: In recent years it is becoming more and more difficult for Chinese college students to find job. I know Princeton is doing extremely well in this regard. 94% of your students find their jobs. What is your secret?

Tilghman: The reputation of the University for excellent training. When someone gets an application and sees that the candidate has attended Princeton, I think most employers know this is a very educated person.

Yong Tang: So if the university is excellent, there is no need to do advertisement and publicity?

Tilghman: Within certain geographical areas that is true. In certain circles in the United States we don't need to do any advertisement. On the other hand, I think we do need to make sure that opportunities are known to students overseas, not just in China, but also in Latin America, in South Asia, in Central Europe, places which traditionally have not sent a large number of students to Princeton. I think we need to make our name better known in those places. Even in some parts of the United States, in small rural communities where there are brilliant students who would never think this is a place they should come to. We are trying more to reach those students.

Yong Tang: I am wondering where are the remaining 6% students?

Tilghman: (Laugh) me too.

Yong Tang: Where are they?

Tilghman: I don't know. But it is a good question. (laugh)

Yong Tang: A&T, Lucent, Bell Lab, NEC, ETS all are based here in Princeton area. How do they offer employment opportunities to your students?

Tilghman: Yes. In addition, there are opportunities for students to conduct research. That happens all the time. So we have students at Lucent conducting experiments because they have technologies that we don't have. So we have a lot of connections with all of those research institutes.

Yong Tang: Research is a global undertaking. Do you have any plans or expectations to expand cooperation with China in scientific research?

Tilghman: We do have a number of relationships with China. We have relationships with Qinghua University and Peking University. We think those are very important and useful for both countries.

I am sure we are lagging behind China

Yong Tang: You were interviewed by CCTV in China, right?

Tilghman: Yes.

Yong Tang: You also made a speech at Oxford University last year. The topic is the same: the conflict between science and politics and religion. So far does your idea on the topic have any changes?

Tilghman: I can't easily summarize my views about it. I think my goal in talking about it is to try and think about ways in which the knowledge can be as effectively translated into creating a better world for people. The degree to which politics and religious belief get in the way of that, I have deep concerns. So I have been searching for some understanding of how scientific knowledge gets caught up in political and religious controversy, in such a way that the benefits are lost.

Yong Tang: Politicians and religious people should get out of the way?

Tilghman: That means scientists have to find a more effective way to translate to lay audiences what it is science can do to make the world better.

Yong Tang: For example, so far how is America doing in stem cell research?

Tilghman: Doing very badly. I am sure we are lagging behind China. The reason is that the federal government has decided you cannot use federal dollars to conduct stem cell research. There are states that have passed legislation about the stem cell issue. But in none of those states have actual real dollars been spent. In California, the whole issue is tied up in the courts. In New Jersey, it is tied up because there is no money.

Yong Tang: So it is very unfortunate for American scientists on stem cell research.

Tilghman: Yes, it is very unfortunate. It is a great opportunity for other countries to get ahead in this area.

Yong Tang: It is very difficult to change the idea of George W Bush?

Tilghman: That is correct. You can only change the government in the next election.

Yong Tang: Let's wish and pray.

Tilghman: Yeah. (Laugh)

Yong Tang: Thank you very much for the interview.

Tilghman: You are welcome. It is a pleasure. Thank you. (END)

Princeton University President Shirley M. Tilghman receives an exclusive interview in her office by People's Daily correspondent Yong Tang.

Yong Tang presents a traditional Chinese paper-cut to Ms.Shirley M. Tilghman before the interview.

Interview with Princeton University President Shirley M. Tilghman, by Yong Tang, People's Daily Correspondent based in Washington DC, photo by John Jameson, Princeton University Photographer