University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Chancellor Richard Herman

People's Daily Interview with University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Chancellor Richard Herman

The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, also known as UIUC, is the flagship campus in the University of Illinois system. Since its founding in 1867, UIUC has been committed to excellence in research, teaching, and public engagement. Nearly 40,000 students and 2,000 faculty members from more than 100 nations come here to work and study in 150 programs offered by 16 colleges and schools and 80 research centers. They are supported by matchless resources including the largest library of any public university in the world.

Recently Yong Tang, People's Daily Washington based correspondent, conducted an exclusive interview with UIUC Chancellor Richard Herman in his office.

About Public and Private Universities

Yong Tang: I have been to University of Michigan��UM��to interview its President Mary Sue Coleman. This is my second time to interview a public university president. I know in America traditionally UM and UC Berkeley and University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign��UIUC��have been ranked as the top three public universities. How do you think of this assessment?

Herman: It is a good assessment. UIUC is a little bit distinct from the other two in the sense that UIUC is a land grant institution created within 10 years of the signing of the Morrill Act by President Lincoln in 1862. Originally this university was focused on agriculture and mechanics. We now compete at national and international scene in all areas of engineering, sciences and the social sciences and humanities. If I think of our competitors, I would think of UC Berkeley, UM, and also the University of Wisconsin and University of North Carolina in different ways.

Yong Tang: How does UIUC compete with other top public universities?

Herman: We compete for faculty, students and federal funding. Berkeley has a medical school but we don't. Our engineering school is probably better than either of them. They would be better in laws and business in terms of national ranking. So we are better in some areas and they are better in other areas.

This is a very difficult time for public universities because states are withdrawing their support for higher education. When I came here 8 years ago 30% of the operating budget of the university came from the state but now it is only 18%. Of course it is partly because of the funding reductions from the state government, partly because of our budget growth in other areas. The tuition grows and research funding grows. This is going on across the country. So we are forced to raise the tuition and we are forced to raise more private funding.

Yong Tang: In such cases it is becoming more and more difficult for you to compete with top private universities just like Ivy Leagues?

Herman: In some ways, yes. But we have larger capacity than most private universities. For example the University of Pennsylvania is a wonderful institution, but it doesn't have the breadth of excellence as we do. The same is true for Yale. So we compete in different ways. Private universities don't get support from the state. They have to raise all the money. We are in an advantage in some ways since the state will help us for the funding.

Yong Tang: As you said, the state and federal government are all trying to reduce the funding for public universities, how can UIUC survive and prosper with such a tight budget?

Herman: We have 380,000 alumni. We expect to raise considerable private funds. We expect our students will pay more for their education. Compared with private universities, we offer the same quality education for 1/3 or 1/4 of the price. So why not come here and get your education for 1/4 of the price?

Yong Tang: My sense is that the difference between the public and private universities in America is disappearing?

Herman: Yes in terms of funding. But there is a different focus to public universities, especially land grant institutions. We are much more closely linked to the public good. That is really our job to think about giving back to the society, about addressing more problems of great issues. For example we are focusing on defining the future of the information technology in this country because of our rich history in the information technology. The web browser Mosaic and Netscape were born here. We have a national center of supercomputing applications here. We feel an obligation to address the issue of energy and we have skills to do it while many private universities don't have that skill or resource. Because we have engineering, urban and regional planning, agriculture and the sciences. There is more focus on public good at public universities than at private universities.

Yong Tang: Do you have any preferential policies for in-state students?

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Chancellor Richard Herman shake hands with Yong Tang, People's Daily correspondent based in Washington.

Herman: We are under pressure to take more students from the state. 89.6% of students here come from the state of Illinois. One of the reasons why the in-state students are so many is that there are no other schools in the state which could compete with us at the same level.

Yong Tang: Maybe too many in-state students here may reduce the quality and excellence of the university?

Herman: The issue is that we are able to attract the best students, no matter where they come from. That is our goal. But at the same time you have to recognize that we are a state university so we have to serve the people of the state of Illinois. We continue to get considerable amount of money from the state even though it is less than it was before.

Yong Tang: Do you charge much less for the in-state students?

Herman: We charge only 1/3 of the tuition for them. Even if you come out of the state and you study in engineering, you pay out-of-state tuition, which is three times than in-state tuition, it is still cheaper than Stanford University. It is a good bargain since our engineering is as good as Stanford.

Yong Tang: Every American state has at least a state university, but not every state has a state university of UIUC caliber. So it is quite unfair for students who live in a state without a good state university, isn't it?

Herman: I think every state tries to raise the level of its public institutions. One of the things about American higher education is access to higher education. So almost 70% of students, after they leave their high schools, go on to 2-year colleges. Much of that are community colleges. 30% of high school graduates go to four-year colleges.

Yong Tang: Can you tell me the number of donations from your alumni?

Herman: We are now raising 160 million private funds for a year. It is not just from alumni. Foundations and cooperations sometimes give us a lot.

Yong Tang: How do you think of the difference between public and private institutions?

Herman: Yes, the difference is narrowing, but it is impossible to have no difference in the future because of the access issue. For public universities, especially land grant institutions, their mission is to seek out talents from across a broad economic spectrum, no matter whether you are poor or wealthy, to find in some ways the extraordinary ability of ordinary people. The simple truth is that public universities serve about 80% of all college students in this country. Private universities cannot possibly serve so many students. If our goal is to educate broadly, which is somehow embedded in our democracy and an educated citizenship, then public university has to have access. So we have to continue to serve a great number of people.

Yong Tang: Do you think in the future some public universities may become private ones or vice versa?

Herman: No, private universities will not change. I mean they don't have the capacity to absorb the great number of students. And the states will not take the burden to help private universities. Part of our future is to think and learn from the private ones to raise more private funds, to raise tuition while keeping access, providing more students aid to the poor and the less capable.

Yong Tang: Since you are trying to raise the tuition, how can a talented student from a poor family study here?

Herman: One of the things is to provide more scholarships. Only half students here pay for their study, 20% pays nothing. Part of that is our money, part of that is the federal money, part of that is the money from the state. The state has a very large student aid portfolio. I started a no debt program for students. When they graduate they could have no debt.

Yong Tang: Compared with the state government, the federal government pays much less for the university?

Herman: Yes and no. Directly, yes. But indirectly no. We get 360 million dollars from the federal government for research. But that money has no guarantee. We have to keep applying for every two or three years and compete nationally with all the other universities. The only guarantees are that you hire high quality faculty. We have a history of hiring great faculty. We have 21 Nobel Prize winners. We have 21 Pulitzer prizewinners also. We have 5 MacArthur Geniuses.

Yong Tang: Why can your university be so successful despite the fact you are a public university?

Herman: First, choosing to focus on certain areas. For instance our engineering and information technology are enormously well known. Chemistry and psychology are also very good. Science and technology have a very great reputation. We are trying to expand that into other areas. There will be limit as to how many we can cover so we have to make choice. We have to hire the best faculty and attract the best students across the country.

Interestingly faculties like to teach great students and students like to be taught by great faculty. It is a chicken and egg problem. But so far we are doing very well because our faculty is getting better and likewise the students are getting better.

Yong Tang: If I were a teacher and I come to teach here, what attracts me most?

Herman: Several things. The quality of your colleagues. The quality of your students. The quality of facilities, the labs and the equipment.

Yong Tang: 99% of Princeton University graduates get employed. Compared with private universities, do your graduates compete successfully on the employment market?

Herman: I have no reason to believe our numbers are not the same. Our students don't have difficulty getting jobs. Some of them go to graduate schools and some go directly to workplaces. We are doing a good job in placing our students.

Yong Tang: Because of the reputation of the university?

Herman: Yes, UIUC is well known for strong work ethics. Our students work very very hard. When I speak to cooperations and people in the private sector, they are very pleased with our graduates here. There are a lot of companies who list us as the number one place to recruit. Bill Gates of Microsoft came here and said he hired more computer science graduates of the University of Illinois than from any other university in the world.

Yong Tang: I know your students work quite hard. I have a friend in Washington DC and his son is a PHD candidate here. The friend often complained to me that since his son was admitted to the PHD program here, he has never been able to see his son again.

Herman: We can arrange a phone call. (Laugh)

Yong Tang: His son said he is just too busy, a lot of assignments from his professor. It seems you put a lot of pressure on the students here?

Herman: They know what they are here for. Judging from the contribution of our students to the society, I think they are doing a very good job.

Yong Tang: What is your biggest concern and challenge today?

Herman: One is to make sure we have resources to maintain and increase the overall quality of our university. Hiring the best faculty and creating the best facility and bringing in the best students. So I spend a lot of my time talking to our alumni to make donations. I spend a lot of time to make sure the quality of the university is at the very best. Making choices about what we will pursue and what we will not emphasize. We decide to invest broadly in areas of energy, sciences for health and information technology. But we still expect our English Department to rise to the top. One of my biggest challenges is how to globalize the university in a deep and meaningful sense, not just study abroad.

Yong Tang: In 2006 rankings, "US News and World Report" rated your university as the 11th public university in America and 42nd in the world. It seems that the ranking is going down.

Herman: One of the difficulties with US News is that they count certain things which are important but they combine them in different ways. They count donations from the alumni. So the top ranked public university, according to them, is 25th. That is silly. Berkeley is much better than many of the private universities ranked above it. Second, we also need to make some changes. We are trying to get more private donations and that will change the number.

Yong Tang: Why not persuade the magazine to change the ranking methodology?

Herman: Yes, I did and I tried that. I protested and next year my ranking went down. (Laugh) Shanghai Jiaotong University has a ranking in which we are ranked number 25 in the world. It is much more meaningful for me. One university is encouraging its students to study abroad and the ranking go down because it takes a little bit longer for the students to graduate. But is it not a good thing to send students to study abroad? So US News is highly artificial and skin deep. I don't want to be driven by US News.

About China

Yong Tang: When did you visit China?

Herman: In 2005. I have been to Zhongshan University, Fudan University. In Beijing I met with Chinese Minister of Education and Minister of Science and Technology. Then I went to Tsinghua University. The campus of the Tsinghua University was designed by a graduate from here. I was in an effort to see how we can increase our relations with Chinese universities and Chinese private sectors.

So far we partnered with Tsinghua University, Peking University, Fudan University, Zhongshan University, Wuhan University, Xiamen University, Lanzhou University, Gansu Agriculture University, Xibei University, Sichuan University.

We are also trying to create a different kind of partnership which involves private sectors. Caterpillar is an American company with many plants in China. Chinese students could study in China for three years and come here for two years plus an internship in the company so they will get a Bachelors degree from Chinese universities and then they get Masters degree here and then do internship in the company. When they finish everything for five years they will go back to China and work in Kraft and Caterpillars and Motorola and Johnson and Johnson, etc. Gu Binlin, Tsinghua University President, came here and we talked about this. He liked the idea and so Tsinghua University will probably be the first Chinese university who sign up for this program.

Instead of studying abroad in a university, our students will also study abroad in a company in China. We will provide our students Chinese language training here and then send them to China to work in a company for six months and then they could get some academic credits for it and then they come back.

Yong Tang: Maybe your US News ranking will go down further. (Laugh)

Herman: I am going to publish my own magazine. (Laugh) To be serious, maybe American Association of Universities should publish a magazine to rank universities.

Yong Tang: What is your impression on Chinese students studying here?

Herman: Very hardworking. At the undergraduate level we have 67 Chinese students. There are 806 graduate Chinese students. I want to increase the number of undergraduate Chinese students here. Students learn from each other. If you want to become a citizen of the world, you should meet students from other countries. Most students here have negative perceptions about China or even have no perceptions at all. But when they come back from China, they will change in a very positive way.

Yong Tang: Someone said Chinese students are much less able to challenge the traditional views?

Herman: My experience is that at least at the undergraduate level Chinese students ask fewer questions. In the classroom they respect the teachers more. We like students to speak up. Obviously they should be respectful in the classroom. But they should ask more questions.

Yong Tang: Do you know Chinese film director Ang Lee (An Li), who is also a UIUC alumnus?

Herman: Yes, recently we were just together in the Carnegie Hall in New York. He and his wife both were students here. His wife got a PHD degree in microbiology. He sent me a greeting card. He is a wonderful person. At the very beginning I found him very quiet. But when he heard the school songs of Illinois being played at Carnegie Hall, he got very animated. He is very much a basketball fan and very loyal to the university.

Yong Tang: Did you persuade him to donate?

Herman: Actually his wife just sent us a very nice donation. They are very generous. We count on them as friends. When Ang Lee won 2006 Best Director Oscar for Brokeback Mountain, we sent him congratulation.

Yong Tang: He is the pride of Chinese people.

Herman: We share that too. We share so many things with the Chinese people.

About being a Chancellor

Yong Tang: During your childhood have you ever dreamed of being a university Chancellor?

Herman: 25 years ago I was sitting in my office doing mathematics. When I first became a department head, I began to think about where I was possibly going. It is hard to imagine a better place than right here. It is sort of like fulfilling a dream. 25 years ago I wasn't thinking about being an administrator. It turned out that I have some talent for that. So I stopped doing research.

Yong Tang: Do you feel regretful about that?

Herman: To some extent administration is like doing research, finding new ways to go, putting pieces together. It is also gratifying to work with so many wonderful people. For me it is a great privilege.

Yong Tang: What is the most important reason why you were chosen as the Chancellor?

Herman: Proven ability. What I have done in the past as an administrator. The other is the vision for the school. Also the working style. A chancellor doesn't do his job alone, the teamwork is very important.

Yong Tang: When you were being interviewed as a Chancellor candidate did you feel anxious?

Herman: Sure. I knew my abilities but I still felt anxious.

Yong Tang: What kind of persons is most suitable for being a university president or Chancellor?

Herman: First you need to understand higher education. You need scholarly credentials and you need the respect of faculties. You need to be able to relate to different constituencies. You need to be able to relate to other presidents. You should be able to work in a larger community. You need to be able to relate to the board of trustees. You need to be able to relate to the public. You need to be able to speak reasonably well. You need to be able to put forward your vision for the institution. Something like the President of the United States.

Yong Tang: How do you keep a balance between the independence of the university and good relations with the state government?

Herman: Carefully! (Laugh) I am a mathematician. So I am trained to know true and false and 0 and 1. But the world is gray and in between. You should have principles, which guide you, and you can't violate them. But when two competing deans have opposite points of views, you have to bring them to the table and say to them what is good for the institution as a whole. I arbitrate in the middle. Half of my life is doing this.

Yong Tang: How long should a president/chancellor serve?

Herman: You can't accomplish anything in two or three years. Seven to ten years are reasonable. I have been the Chancellor for one year so I hope to be here for quite a long time.

By Yong Tang, People's Daily correspondent based in Washington DC