Yong Tang (L), People's Daily Washington-based correspondent, shakes hands with Brown University President Ruth J. Simmons in her office.

Founded in 1764, Brown University is America's seventh oldest college and a member of the Ivy League. It is one of the best universities in America. Recently Yong Tang, People's Daily Washington-based correspondent, conducted a face-to-face interview with Brown University President Ruth J. Simmons in her office.

Yong Tang: I know you are the first African American president, and second female president, of an Ivy League institution, as well as the first permanent female president of Brown. In 2002, Newsweek Magazine selected you as a person to watch, Ms. Magazine selected you as Woman of the Year, while in 2001, Time Magazine named you as America's best college president. How do you think of those wonderful compliments?

Simmons: We have a wonderful system of education in the United States. We have over 3000 universities and colleges. One reason that American universities excel is because of the traditions of strong leadership among university and college presidents. So, I do not place a great deal of faith in being singled out in that way. I am aware of how excellent and widespread leadership skills are in higher education in the United States. I would just cite the outstanding people in many other positions who are doing really wonderful job.

Yong Tang: If I were the editor of Time or Newsweek, I would name you as Ms. Rice in American higher education.

Simmons: Really? (Laugh) Condoleezza Rice is a person of enormous talent. She is extremely well educated and was a university administrator at Stanford University. To be mentioned in the same sentence with someone of her background is, of course, an honor. That is not a political statement. But just in terms of her extraordinary achievement, as I said, I am honored to be mentioned in the same sentence with her.

Yong Tang: I know You grew up extremely poor in the state of Texas. Your father worked on farms owned by white people. Your mother worked in white people's homes. You were the youngest of twelve children. There was no money for books or toys-you and your 11 sisters and brothers each got just an apple, an orange and 10 nuts for Christmas.

Simmons: Yes, in an empty shoebox! (Laugh)

Yong Tang: How did you feel at that time?

Simmons: It sounds quite normal actually because I had not seen much of the world. It was just a small town where we were living on this farm where we grew up. That was the condition that prevailed for all of the community. So we didn't see any difference, frankly. Everybody around us was poor.

Yong Tang: So you quite enjoyed your life at that time?

Simmons: Yes, I had a very happy childhood.

Yong Tang: Everybody could draw something from his or her childhood experience when he or she grows up. As Brown University President today, what can you draw from your childhood?

Simmons: One thing I draw from my childhood is that I am not afraid of loss and deprivation. A lot of people who are successful are in great fear of losing that success, or of losing their wealth, or of not succeeding, or of not having the approval of their peers. When you grow up in those circumstances, none of that really matters because if you have survived a period where you didn't have any of that, you are not so frightened to go back to it again. So it gave me more courage to do the things that I do.

Secondly, my childhood helps me greatly understand the challenges that many of our students who come from similar circumstances often confront. It is quite often that I sit with a student who is from very deprived background. He will say to me, "Yes, I know what you are going to say to me, Ruth, that I should stop feeling sad for myself and just get busy and do my work and everything will work out."

So by virtue of my background, I often find that I don't need to lecture my students about not feeling sad for themselves, doing their work, being hopeful, and focusing on the right things. They look at my life and say, "Ok, you did it and so can I." They know not to complain to me about how difficult the things are. I almost never have a student coming to say that she or he is really having a difficult time.

Yong Tang: I know when you graduated from high school one of your teachers took up a collection so you could have a coat. What is the name of the teacher?

Simmons: Mrs. Lillie. She taught English and drama in my high school. I also had a teacher who actually gave me clothes to pack when I went off to college. She took the clothes from her own closet and packed them for me to make sure that I would have something to wear when I went to college. That was a wonderful era in education in this country. Very devoted teachers who did more than simply teach. They took care of students almost like parents.

Yong Tang: You often say diversity is the core value of democracy. You promise to make diversity your No. 1 campus mission. Can you explain that?

Simmons: Yes, diversity is one of our most important goals. I continue to maintain that in an international environment such as we have today, when people move constantly across international borders, and where the traditional idea of citizenship (being the uniformity of ethnic groups, the uniformity of race, uniformity of clans, and whatever prevailing measures that were in place several hundred years ago), is all disappearing. In the future, societies and their success will weigh very heavily on their capacity to understand and embrace a variety of different kinds of cultures. That is not an easy thing to do.

We should not expect that to take place without a great deal of education, practice, and focus. Education should help students prepare for a world where democracy is made up of equal members because everyone feels respected and empowered, and where everybody believes they could be educated and add value to their democracy.

Yong Tang: Brown University has an Office of Diversity. Do you think it can really do its job?

Simmons: Yes, I do. On a daily basis, we have a number of experts at the university to help us with various things. We have, for example, a director of media relations who help us formulate what we do in the area of media.

I always maintain that one must develop the expertise in managing diversity in the same way as we develop expertise in any other areas. Our Office of Diversity is a resource to different departments. If the Physics Department, for example, is having difficulty in identifying women or others for its faculty, it could go to the Office of Diversity for help and advice on how to take different approaches and be more effective. The woman who manages our Office of Diversity can look around the campus and see if there are any problems. She could go to a department and say, "We noticed that you don't have Asian faculty in your department. Why not?" So, her job is to scan the campus to see whether we are missing opportunities to recruit faculty and students from diverse backgrounds, and to offer a diversity programs in our curriculum.

Yong Tang: Brown University is private and expensive. So how can you make sure that students could come from poor background?

Simmons: We have raised a significant amount of money for scholarships. At private universities, we have an endowment. We set aside sums of money that will grow and appreciate in value, and the revenue from the fund will be used for various purposes. We are growing our endowment so that it will allow us to support students from any background. When we admit students, we do not consider whether they could afford to come to Brown. We will look at what their talents are and what their education has been and how hard they have worked. We don't have to look at their financial means.

Yong Tang: But compared to Harvard and Yale, your endowment is small?

Simmons: Brown's endowment is small certainly compared to Harvard's and Yale's, but we are competitive with both Harvard and Yale in other areas. Some students, for example, applied to Brown, Harvard, and Yale. Sometimes they choose Brown rather than Harvard or Yale.

Yong Tang: Why?

Simmons: American students are very sensitive to matching their own interest and their own style of learning to particular institutions. For some students, Brown University's approach to education is better for them than Harvard, Yale, MIT, or Stanford or any other competitive institution. And sometimes a student may choose Harvard or Yale or some other institution because they believe that their approach to education is better for them. I like the fact that in this country students and parents choose institutions that they judge to be most beneficial for the students.

Yong Tang: How many percent of students here could get financial aid?

Simmons: Forty-five percent of our students receive financial aid. It is a high percentage and considered quite good.

Yong Tang: Today Chinese language learning is becoming more and more popular in America. Does Brown University have any courses related with China and Chinese culture in order to promote diversity?

Simmons: We do. We have a program focused on East Asian cultures and languages. In addition, we have courses and faculty in East Asian Studies Department. Although we have an East Asian Study program, you may find faculty offering courses on Chinese history and Chinese politics in a number of other areas of the university. So we are offering this educational opportunity in many parts of the university. We think this is an important approach, so we do not isolate East Asian studies into just one area of the curriculum.

Yong Tang: As you mentioned, in America some teachers are just like parents. They care not only about knowledge transmission but also about the overall development of the students. What has Brown University done to teach its students in the way the students could develop physically and physiologically? You know, in Chinese universities many students commit suicide. Some of them even mistreat animals to express their frustration and depression.

Simmons: Brown is known for being a "university college." Rather than simply being a research university with the emphasis on research, we also offer the best of what a small college provides. That includes a focus on the development of human beings �C studies in the humanities, arts and history and so on. So, our students have a sense that what life means and the history of thought and the development of human beings as a background for their studies in engineering, physics and other fields.

The "university college" model also means that there is a focus on small classes and interaction between faculty and students. We do not have a model here in which faculty members go into the classroom, deliver a lecture, and then just leave. Students expect to get to know the faculty. They may have a cup of coffee with faculty members. They may go to their office hours and talk with them not just about the course they are studying, but also about what is happening in their lives and the kind of things they like to do. Of course, they can also come to open office hours and discuss intellectual challenges and problems.

The idea is that this is an apprenticeship model that has long been the basis of education. It really requires learners to have access to the scholar and be able to interact with that person, not just passively receive knowledge. We insist on the proportion of our class size being small so that students can feel more at ease and participate more fully. Sometimes, faculty members give lectures in student residence halls.

We are setting up a dynamic where students can have access to professors in many different settings. We also encourage research among our undergraduate students. This means that even if you are a first-year or second-year student, you can go to a professor and ask for a project, and you can work one-on-one with that professor on a research topic. So we have a number of strategies like that to ensure students have contact with faculty outside the formal classroom setting.

Yong Tang: So whenever your students have some abnormal behavior, your professor could easily identify it?

Simmons: We have a system of deans on our campus where the deans interact with my office and with the faculty members. So when the faculty member perceives that a student is having trouble, they are likely to call a dean and say, "I have a student, and he has some difficulties. Is that something you can help with?" The dean then will try to assist students by getting physiological counseling or by sending them to an academic dean if they have some academic trouble and help them solve the problem.

Most of us have office hours for students. I have open office hours for students. It is not by appointment. Any student can walk in and see me during these hours, which are published in the school newspaper. Often when students come to see me, they come to talk with me about personal issues. They are uncertain about what to do in their lives. So I am often involved in counseling students about the difficult issues they are facing. So the president is doing it, the deans are doing it, and the faculty is doing it. We have a network of interactions with our students that is informal, and we encourage our students to see us if they have problems.

Yong Tang: So maybe no students here commit suicide?

Simmons: Very rarely.

Yong Tang: It is also partly because of their New Curriculum?

Simmons: Maybe they are enjoying their studies here at Brown. Brown University differs remarkably from other universities in its "New Curriculum." The New Curriculum, which was instituted in 1969, eliminates distribution requirements and mandatory A/B/C grading (allowing any course to be taken on a "satisfactory/no credit" basis). Moreover, there are no pluses (+) or minuses (-) in the grading system.

Distribution requirements refer to the choice of courses that American students have for their first two years of college. In many American universities, the college may say in the first two years that the students must take courses in social sciences, two courses in humanities, two courses in science, but they don't prescribe which course you have to take.

Yong Tang: The students may enjoy much greater freedom with this New Curriculum?

Simmons: Yes, they certainly have much more choice, but only in their first two years at Brown. After that if you major in physics, you are required to take certain courses. The part that gives students more freedom is the first two years, which is considered in American universities as general education requirements. Distribution requirements are designed to require students to take course across a lot of fields. But we found at Brown that our students do that even if it is not required.

Yong Tang: Brown has become the most open university with the New Curriculum. How did Brown University come up with the idea of New Curriculum?

Simmons: During the 1960s, there were many strong reactions to the prescriptive design of the curriculum. There was a general revolt against that kind of authoritative approach to education. Most universities have changed their governance system because of this revolutionary activity. For example, Princeton had changed the way they made decisions in order to allow students, faculty members, and others to be a part of the decision making process. So, there was widespread activism in the United States and in other countries at this time to reform the thinking about how young people are prepared for their college education.

Brown's version of this change was the New Curriculum. There was agreement that you could educate students better by eliminating those rigid requirements as long as you keep the requirements in the majors. It is still in place today because it is so successful for us for a number of reasons. First, because Brown University is relatively small among universities. Secondly, our faculty is so engaged with students. Third, our students are atypically brilliant. This is a system that would not work well with students of moderate ability. Our students tend to be highly motivated, very creative, and very innovative, and they take responsibility for their work in the way you would not find in most universities. So, it works well for us.

Yong Tang: So, you don't need to worry that students may be out of control?

Simmons: We rely so heavily on the motivation of students, we don't feel that way. I have been at universities where there are lots of requirements, and students still spend all their time playing videogames in their rooms. You can't police behavior to that extent. What we count on when we admit students is that they will be very hardworking and very highly motivated. And that has turned out to be the case here.

Yong Tang: I know recently there has been some debate on the New Curriculum. Someone said Brown should keep it, while critics say that the New Curriculum should be revised. What is your opinion?

Simmons: As a faculty member, I would say from my experience that the New Curriculum provides a learning environment that is quite exceptional. It would be a serious mistake to eliminate it. When I say quite exceptional, I mean that the students who are in classes at Brown have freely chosen to be in those classes.

There is a problem of students' attendance at some classes in Chinese universities because of the lecture format. But at Brown, the reality is that students go to class not because of the requirement, but because they are interested in the class. You might imagine the classroom environment is very exciting, very dynamic. Everybody who is there wants to be there. The New Curriculum is not an approach for everyone, but for highly motivated students who are as brilliant as students admitted at Brown, it is a good model, but it is not one that every university needs to adopt. But certainly it is one beneficial for us.

Yong Tang: At Brown University, students are allowed to design their own courses according to their specific wishes. You also have some subjects like Math history, Medical ethics, Egyptian language and Brazilian research, which can hardly be found elsewhere.

Simmons: Those courses are not designed by students. That goes back to the history of the university and to the interest of particular scholars at the time when they came to Brown. So, we still have an environment where the faculty creates the courses and determines the curriculum. All of the above-mentioned courses were created by scholars and faculty.

From time to time students have the option of creating some experimental courses by going to a faculty member and requesting that they be allowed to explore a particular new field or a particular subject area. But that is not a part of the regular curriculum. If you were a student at Brown and you decided to do something on higher education in China, but there was no course like that at Brown, if you are willing to do the research, try to assemble all of the supporting materials, you can go to your department and say, "I would like to initiate a learning experience on my own. This is what I plan to do. May I do it?" A student can request permission to do that kind of project, but it would not be considered a regular course at the University.

Yong Tang: Students here are heavily involved into politics. They tend to influence the society by taking actions. Does Brown have any policy of encouragement or discouragement for that?

Simmons: I would not call it politics. I would say students here are very interested in social activism. Sometimes they are interested in political campaigns, but they are more broadly interested in helping society through their efforts. They may volunteer in local schools, or they may work at a local child center. They love to become engaged in programs that help local communities. They do this on a volunteer basis. We encourage that. Most American universities today encourage students not to just think about themselves and their own career aspirations, but also to think about their communities and do something in the community even while they are college students.

Yong Tang: Do you encourage students to be involved into the real-world politics such as the antiwar campaign?

Simmons: No, universities are forbidden from participating in politics in any formal way. It is against the law for us to do that. For example, I cannot urge my students to go to the streets and campaign for the Republican Party, the Democratic Party, or any particular political candidate. It is illegal for universities to do that in the United States.

However, students may themselves, independently of the university, get involved in politics. We cannot take away the right of individual students to be interested in and be involved in politics. That is their constitutional right. But as an institution, the university cannot do that.

Yong Tang: During the general elections, can you encourage students to vote for some candidates?

Simmons: No. We can encourage students to vote, but not to vote for a specific party or candidate. If we do that, it would violate our federal tax laws, and the university could have its federal government funds removed.

Yong Tang: Have you ever been to China?

Simmons: I am going to China soon for the first time. I leave on 14th of June and arrive in Shanghai on 15th of June, and I will be there for a couple of days. Then I will go to Beijing, and after that, I will visit Xi'an. I will be going as a part of trip being organized by Goldman Sachs, of which I am a trustee. Hopefully, I will meet with some Chinese university officials.

Yong Tang: So far does Brown University have any collaboration programs with Chinese institutions?

Simmons: Individual faculty members are involved in some programs in China, but one of the reasons I am very interested in visiting China is forming more formal institutional exchanges. That is one of the things I want to work on.

Yong Tang: It seems to me Brown University is lagging behind many other universities in America in establishing close relations with Chinese counterparts?

Simmons: Not too long. (Laugh)

Yong Tang: Most Ivy Leagues have many collaboration programs with Chinese counterparts so Brown University is trying to catch up with them.

Simmons: Yes!

Yong Tang: How do you think of Chinese students here?

Simmons: Brown has 142 students from China, and among them 18 are undergraduate students. We do not have too many Chinese students, but we are very interested in having more. The number of Chinese students is not huge, but the tradition is long. Brown had its first Chinese students in 1906.

Yong Tang: Have you heard of any news about Chinese institutions and their presidents?

Simmons: I hear more about Chinese institutions. Everybody is interested in China today. Everybody knows the story of development of Chinese universities. Additional funding is devoted to science and technology. We read a lot about this from newspapers. I am very much aware and admire greatly the effort that is underway in China to develop universities.

In the U.S. there are some stereotypes of Chinese education. One of the stereotypes is that Chinese education is more "rote" than American education. Rote means passive learning and a lot of memorization, and it does not allow much creativity on the part of students. Another is that Chinese education does not link very successfully with technology transfer.

I have read that many Chinese students are not satisfied with their education. But in America, when students leave the college, they give money back to the college because they are so happy with what the college has done for them. The older they get, the more money they give to the college. They realize that the college prepared them very well for their career and their life, and they are grateful for that. I have an impression from what I have read that graduates of Chinese universities do not have the same emotional attachment to their universities.

Yong Tang: The cost of higher education in China is rising rapidly. Somebody justified that higher education is a limited and rare resource so it is natural that not everybody can afford to attend higher education, and you should take it for granted and face the music. Someone else disagrees that universities should have more access to students with poor family backgrounds. What is your personal opinion? Also, why are private universities in America so concerned with the access issue?

Simmons: I will speak about the American context. Culturally, American universities believe they have a duty to the country. I always maintain that universities have a societal role first and foremost. That role is to promote the welfare of the society by educating people who are able to improve society. That is the role of universities.

Keep in mind that most universities in the West are medieval institutions. Even in those days, those universities took people from throughout society. They saw their role even then as the transmission of knowledge to the most able people. Universities have always thought of themselves that way. So in the United States the idea has always been that we must find the brightest students capable of transferring that knowledge and developing the society. Those students should be educated at the highest level no matter where they come from.

My story is not usual in the United States. Not at all. The remarkable thing is that, through time, the most impoverished children have entered into the greatest universities in this country Their clothing may not look the same as those wealthier students. They may not drive a fancy car as a wealthy student might, but in terms of their place in the classroom and the work they do, there is absolutely no differentiation. They can walk into the classroom, and they can claim a seat in the front row. They can go to see the faculty member on a same basis. They can be the best student in their university even though they come from the most abject poverty in the country.

That is a beautiful concept. I believe that one of the reasons the United States is able to cohere is precisely because of the nature of education. It is glue that holds the country together. When I travel around the country and talk to new immigrants, they say to me, "I could not believe it! I came from my country, and now that I am in the U.S., I am already in a community college." They cannot believe that they came to the U.S. and immediately went to college and began the process of advancing up the social ladder. Everybody knows that he has a chance, no matter where he is from and what his circumstances are. That makes it such a powerful example. There are pockets of poverty and pockets of need, no matter where you are. A nation has to appeal to the humanitarian value of its population. In my view, human beings are equal. If they have ability, they should be allowed to use that ability for the good of their fellow citizens. Universities play a very important role in making that a reality.

In this country, you could drop out of high school; you could get a general education diploma, which is an exam to prove that you have known enough to graduate from high school. You could go to a community college with your general education diploma and you can take one course. Then you could gradually work your way to full time. Once you finish your community college, you could then go to four-year college. So you can start at an absolute bottom and go to the very top. Is that not a powerful model? It actually works. Some of our most famous achievers in this country are people who followed that kind of path.

Yong Tang: Where do you live now?

Simmons: I have a residence provided by Brown University. When I retire from my position as president, I will move out of the house.

Yong Tang: Everything is paid by the University if you live in the residence on the campus?

Simmons: Yes.

Yong Tang: So it is a very good benefit.

Simmons: Yes. But you have to shoulder heavy-duty responsibilities (laugh). The reason why the president lives in the university's residence is because you work more. If you live on the campus, your days are longer and you will work extra hours. You can start earlier and work later in the day.

Yong Tang: Is it a tradition for most American university presidents to live on the campus?

Simmons: Most university presidents live in a house provided by the university. It is a very strong tradition. I think it is a good tradition because you can interact with students more. Being a university president is not the kind of job in which you come at 9:00 in the morning and leave at 5:00 in the afternoon, so you spend a lot of time at work. Also, in American universities, there is much more a notion that it is a "family." and I am the "mom" on the university campus. There is an idea that presidents really serve as a parental figure. So when I talk to my students, I talk to them like a parent. I will say, "You should do this, and you shouldn't do that." I can scorn them, and I can praise them.

By Yong Tang, People's Daily correspondent based in Washington, DC