"We can be a benevolent superpower", interview with Jimmy Carter

His birthday is October 1, a day every Chinese person will celebrate. He cut diplomatic ties with Taiwan and established diplomatic relations with People's Republic of China. His administration didn't fire a single bullet overseas. He was awarded Nobel Peace Prize in 2002 for his contributions to world peace. He is still surprisingly active both physically and spiritually at the age of nearly 83. He enjoys working in his peanut field. He has so far written 21 books. He is The New York Times' best selling author.

His name is Jimmy Carter, the 39th President of the United States. Recently he was interviewed in his office at the Carter Center in Atlanta by Yong Tang, a Washington-based correspondent of People's Daily.

Jimmy Carter and Yong Tang (R)

"I like the word competition better than confrontation"

Yong Tang: You became American President five years after President Nixon first visited China. However, since his visit in 1972 there was not much progress in bilateral relationship between Washington and Beijing. What made you decided to normalize relationship with China?

Carter: I first visited China in 1949 when I was a young naval officer. It was a year when the Nationalist Chinese left Mainland China and went to Taiwan. Then on October 1, 1949, my birthday, the People's Republic of China was formed.

Yong Tang: You have the same birthday with my country. It was really a beautiful coincidence.

Carter: Yeah! I was very excited and pleased when Nixon did go to China. But I was disappointed when they announced there was only one China and didn't say which one. As you know, the more conservative Americans, including particular Republicans, still looked upon Taiwan as the only China. So when I became President, I thought it was time to make a change. I saw the enormous need for better understanding, better communication, better friendship and cooperation with China. So I decided that would be one of my goals as President.

So beginning in early 1978, Deng Xiaoping and I had very secret negotiations. I didn't even use the State Department. All of the messages went from the White House directly to China. I thought that it was one of the most needed diplomatic goals in my country's life. And I think it was the right thing to do and one of the best things I ever did.

Yong Tang: As many researchers and biographers have suggested, your decision to establish diplomatic relationship with China was a very courageous one and hurt your relationship with the Congress. What do you think of the significance of the establishment of diplomatic relations between China and America? In the long run, how has the decision affected China and the entire world?

Carter: Well, it was proven to be one of the best things that ever happened to my country, and I think it has had a beneficial effect on China as well. When I went over in 1981 to visit China as the guest of Deng Xiaoping, he wanted me to see the first phases of economic freedom moving toward a free enterprise. And I think that may not have happened if we didn't have normal relations. Also his establishment of the right of little villages to have local elections was another possible result of the normalization. So I think that, in many ways, it has stabilized the political and military situation in the East, in Asia and also in several other countries.

Yong Tang: I know you are a close friend of Mr. Deng Xiaoping. After the normalization announcement in December 1978, Deng Xiaoping was invited by you to visit the United States. You met him many times since his 1979 visit. 2007 is the 10th anniversary of his death. Can you tell me your impression of Mr. Deng, his visit to the White House and your later meetings with him in China?

Carter: He was a strong man. He was a great and wise man. He was courageous. And he was very honest and frank.

Yong Tang: Also a very heavy smoker?

Carter: He was that. That's one thing that I didn't like. (Laughs) But when he told me something, I believed it to be true, and it was. He never wavered in his commitment to achieve the normalization of relations, but also to accommodate some of the special political obstacles that I had to overcome dealing with Taiwan.

Yong Tang: I know that you have visited China many many times. During those visits, you visited many places in China, met many Chinese leaders and talked to ordinary Chinese people. What changes in China have impressed you most?

Carter: Well, the most remarkable changes in China have all been related to economic change. I saw the original birth of free enterprise when Deng Xiaoping would only permit small farmers to have one tiny project: buy chickens or repair bicycles or make clay pots; they couldn't have two, only one. And later he expanded that to villages, and then he expanded on up. So that has been the primary change that I have seen and that has been impressive to me. It has been profoundly noticeable to the whole world.

I would say that in the field of freedom, religious freedom, there has been great progress made. I had an argument with him. I requested that he permit freedom of religion and that he permit Bibles to come back into China. I'm a Christian, and he agreed to do both of those things and did them. So in 1982 the Chinese National People's Congress approved the guarantee of freedom of religion. There are still some restraints on religion but progress has been made. And when I first visited China after I left the White House, it was impossible for a person in China to move from one place to another, except if the government ordered him to. Now there is more freedom of movement, more freedom of religion, and more economic freedom.

Yong Tang: What do you think of the future of US-Sino relations? Do you think the US China relations will continue to profoundly impact the development of international regime?

Carter: My prayer and my hope are that the relation will always be friendly. But I think there's going to be more competition between China and the United States, which is already evident economically. I have seen your Premier Wen Jiabao making great efforts in Latin America, Africa, and other places around the world to expand the diplomatic and economic relationships with those countries. Some are in competition with the United States. I think that's healthy, but that shows what is going to happen in the future. I think the competition between the United States and China is going to be increasingly important. If we can maintain mutual respect and mutual trust, then that competition can be beneficial.

Yong Tang: But some experts claim that a confrontation between China and America is unavoidable because of our huge differences in political systems and diplomatic priorities and Taiwan issues. How do you think of that?

Carter: Well, I like the word competition better than confrontation. You know, confrontation has the connation of possible military action. I don't believe that, with any degree of wisdom in Beijing or Washington, we are going to have a military confrontation. But it is inevitable that we are going to be more competitive, even in space and military capabilities as well as economics and politics. But if we retain our friendships then that competition can be peaceful and maybe mutually beneficial.

Yong Tang: I know The Carter Center was established in 1982. This year is the 25th anniversary of the Center. Can you tell me what the initial goals in setting up the Center were? How have those goals changed over the years? What kind of role does the Center play in the world and especially in China?

Carter: Our original goal was to have a center here where I could negotiate peace agreements to avoid wars or to end existing civil wars. Over time, we expanded our programs. We have observed 67 elections in the world, including in Indonesia and Palestine and so forth. And we work to prevent and eradicate diseases that are prevalent in poor countries. Our operations are in more than 65 nations around the world, 35 in Africa.

For almost 10 years we have been invited by the government of China to come and help monitor the conduct of elections in small villages. I'll be back in China in November. And my hope is that after the National People's Congress sessions next year, The Carter Center will have opportunities to consider other areas of cooperation with China.

We've had two other projects in China that were very important to me. And I wanted to do something in China to show Deng Xiaoping my gratitude. Deng Pufang, his son, crushed his spin when he was pushed out of a third story window in the Cultural Revolution. I went to Deng Xiaopng and said what can The Carter Center do to help you? He gave me two projects. One was to help build in China, for the first time, a factory to produce highly capable prosthetics, artificial arms and legs and so forth. So we helped with that. And the other one was to train teachers all over China to deal with children who were blind and deaf. So those were two projects that we had in China, prior to our work with elections, when Deng Xiaoping was still around.

Yong Tang: I know you are known as the human rights President. When you were at the White House, you promoted a foreign policy that placed human rights at the forefront. This was a break from the policies of several predecessors, in which human rights abuses were often overlooked if they were committed by a nation that was allied with the United States. The Carter Center continues to promote human rights worldwide. In your view how do you strike a balance between national security and human rights?

Carter: When I became President, I announced that human rights would be the foundation of our foreign policy and the rights of individual human beings would be preeminent¡ªfreedom of speech, freedom of association, freedom of movement, freedom to choose one's own government as well as social and economic rights such as the right of a human being to have a decent place to live, health care, and education. So we did that when I was President. I would say that the most obvious result has been the democratization of a number of countries. For instance, when I became President, most of the Latin American countries were dictatorships. They had military dictatorships in countries like Ecuador, Peru, Brazil, Argentina, Chile and Paraguay, and now they are all democracies.

One reason for that are the human rights policies I established. There have been some changes made in governments around the world to promote human rights. But I think also is more awareness that every human being has a right to decent place to live and to education, health care, and freedom. I believe in the freedom to choose one's own leaders, and freedom to worship.

"We can be that kind of superpower, a benevolent superpower"

Jimmy Carter receives interview from Yong Tang

Yong Tang: in your book Our Endangered Values: America's Moral Crisis, you insist that foreign policy of the Bush administration is a failure. How do you think of American foreign policy at the moment?

Carter: It's still the same. It's still contrary to what all of President Bush's predecessors did. It's different from what his father did. It's different from what Ronald Reagan did. It's different form what I did and what Bill Clinton did.

First, we now have the policy of preemptive war, and we've never had this before. We pretty well have abandoned all of the nuclear arms agreements we have conducted in the past. We have tax policies in this country that reward rich people. We have abandoned the Kyoto commitments to preserve the economy and the environment of the world. We abandoned, in my opinion, the basic principles of human rights with the use of torture, imprisonment in Guantanamo, and a declaration that the Geneva Convention restraints on the treatment of prisoners no longer applies to us. Those kinds of things have been very disturbing to me.

Yong Tang: What are the major sources of all the above mentioned problems? What is the biggest mistake?

Carter: It's a very complex subject, and I can't give you a brief answer. But I think some of the people in Washington now believe in American hegemony in many parts of the world. We have by far the strongest military power on Earth. I think our defense budget is equal to all the other defense budgets in the world combined. I think they saw that as a way to plant American presence and control in Iraq and other places around the world. They wanted to do this without any international restraints from the United Nations or from existing treaties and laws. I think this is a basic policy problem.

Yong Tang: in the same book, you said that you are glad that America has a strong defense, but size and physical prowess aren't the only attributes of a superpower. They should also include "a demonstrable commitment to truth, justice, peace, freedom, humility, human rights, generosity and the upholding of other moral values". Which country in the history is qualified for a superpower with such attributes? Is it too idealistic?

Carter: Yes, it is idealistic. You have to go back in ancient times, say to the Roman Empires, to see a nation that was dominant in its area, because it didn't dominate China and they had some benevolent attributes. I think that America, in the future, would have the capabilities of becoming such a Superpower.

You know, I was a military man, my training was in the military; I was in the Navy force for 11 years. Anyway, I had a strong defense, but I never dropped a bomb, we never launched a missile, we never fired a bullet. Still we preserved our own security and peace with others.

Yong Tang: During your Administration?

Carter: Yes, that's true. And we still promoted human rights and peace and justice. At that time we were not the only superpower in the world because we were about equal with our nuclear arsenals with the Soviet Union and China as well. But now the United States is dominant, so far, in economics and military and so forth. I think if our country adopts these principles, we can be that kind of superpower, a benevolent superpower.

"That's the most accurate word that describes what's going on in Palestine"

Yong Tang: Your latest book, Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid, was published in December 2006. You believe that "Israel's continued control and colonization of Palestinian land have been the primary obstacles to a comprehensive peace agreement in the Holy Land". The book has created considerable controversy, especially for the use of the word apartheid in the title and throughout the book. You defended your argument during a lecture at George Washington University. I attended that lecture personally. Why do you want to write this book and how do you justify the use of the word apartheid?

Carter: Because that's the most accurate word that describes what's going on in Palestine. Apartheid is when two different people live in the same area, and they are forcibly separated and one of the people dominates and persecutes the other. That's what's happening in Palestine and that's what apartheid is.

I wrote the book for two reasons. One is to publicize, or reveal, the terrible plight of the Palestinians; how they are being abused and persecuted. And second, to try to give new light to the peace process in the Middle East; it's now dead. We haven't had a single day of peace talks in more than six years, and I hope that my book will instigate some attention of the world to the plight of the Palestinians and help promote a new light for the peace talks.

Yong Tang: Did you anticipate such a strong response from the Jewish communities here?

Carter: My private mail from Jews and others has been positive. But it's impossible almost, in this country, for a Jewish American to criticize the government in Israel. But they know that what I say is accurate, and they want to see peace talks start again, but they can't criticize the policies of the government, even when they disagree with those policies.

Yong Tang: Why can't they?

Carter: A small percentage of the Jewish community in America, probably one percent of the total population, feel that for them to criticize the Jewish government in Israel is not appropriate. It is criticized severely in Jerusalem; in the Parliament, in the public forums, in the news media, and so forth. In fact, their preeminent newspaper there is Haaretz, and Haaretz's editorial page uses the word apartheid to describe the situation. Prominent members of their government, including former attorney general and the three different prime ministers also use the word apartheid. And the number one human rights organization, Bethselem, also refers to apartheid. So it's a common thing in Israel, but in the United States it's just not an acceptable thing to do.

"Before I go into a sensitive political area of the world I get permission from the White House"

Yong Tang: I know you were born on a peanut farm in Georgia. Right?

Carter: Yes.

Yong Tang: Like Bill Clinton, you started from scratch and you are not a rich President. Political analysts say it is becoming more and more difficult in America to run for presidency if you don't have enough money. Is that true?

Carter: Yes, yes it is. It's bad, it's true and bad. I didn't have any money when I ran for president.

Yong Tang: One example of American Dream is that every child born on a small farm may become American President someday. Your experience is typically the fulfillment of that American Dream. Some American people are quite proud of that.

Carter: That's gone now. Now people that can have a chance to be the nominee of Democratic or Republican Party are those who can raise, in advance, a hundred million dollars, because the laws have changed in the last 25 years since I ran for president. Now, very rich people and powerful corporations and others can give money to the candidates to finance their campaign. I think it's unfortunate but it's true. We will never know how many potentially wonderful presidents never have a chance now because they can't or won't adopt a policy of raising enormous sums of money.

Yong Tang: Do you think America will do something to change that unfortunate election politics so that poor but capable persons can still run for presidency?

Carter: I don't know. I hope so. But right now the Republican Party is dominate in our country, in the White House and in the Supreme Court, and has a very conservative philosophy. They think that anybody that has money ought to have a legal right to invest it in future candidates for Congress and also the presidency.

Yong Tang: My readers very much want to know how a president lives in the White House. Does American president have any kind of extra benefit except the salary?

Carter: (Laughs) You don't get much salary as a President!

Yong Tang: I know the annual salary for President at your time was about 200,000 dollars, now that has increased to 400,000 dollars. Did you need to pay everything at your own expense when you were in White House?

Carter: You have to pay for food and all that. Well, the White House is very large, and two of our sons and one of our daughters lived there with us. One of them attended and graduated from George Washington University. Inside the White House grounds, there is a swimming pool and a bowling alley. We also had Camp David, which is a good resort area 35 minutes by helicopter from the White House, so we could go to Camp David on the weekends. So there was a lot of recreation; and I took a lot of exercise. I enjoyed being the President.

Yong Tang: How was the benefit changed when you retired?

Carter: I get the same retirement pay that a member of Congress gets, so every time Congress raises their salary, I get more benefits. But all my other income since I left the White House has been from my books. I don't receive any money from The Carter Center; in fact, I give money to The Carter Center. So my income is primarily from the books that I write; I've written 21 books.

Yong Tang: Does the White House have any restrictions on what a former president can say or do? You went to a lot of sensitive areas including North Korea, Cuba and somewhere in the Middleeast. In 1994, you went to North Korea and met with North Korean President Kim Il Sung, resulting in the signing of the Agreed Framework. You visited Cuba in May 2002 and met with Fidel Castro This made you the first President of the United States, in or out of office, to visit the island since the Cuban revolution of 1959. Did you need to get approved by the White House before you went to those areas?

Carter: I've always gotten approval from the White House. Sometimes it's very reluctant approval. But I have made a policy that is voluntary on my part that before I go into a sensitive political area of the world I get permission from the White House.

Yong Tang: I know you are a strong critic of Bush administration. Do you think the government is listening whenever you are criticizing and making recommendations?

Carter: Well, yes. When I write a book or write an editorial for the New York Times, or the Washington Post, or Time magazine, or Newsweek magazine, I'm sure they read what I say. I also write personal letters to the President. Every time when I make a trip overseas for the last 25 years, when I return home I have sent a trip report to the President and also to the Secretary of State. And I send a copy of it to the Secretary General of the United Nations, so they always know what I have done overseas as soon as I get back.

Yong Tang: From a young age, you showed a deep commitment to Christianity, serving as a Sunday School teacher throughout your political career. Even as President, you prayed several times a day, and professed that Jesus Christ was the driving force in your life. Today you still pray everyday and teach Sunday School every Sunday? Why are you so committed to Christianity?

Carter: Yes, I still pray everyday, and I teach Sunday School every Sunday, because it's been the foundation of my beliefs. When I describe what a good superpower ought to be, those are the characteristics of Jesus Christ whom I worship. We call him the Prince of Peace, so I worship the Prince of Peace, not war. He believed in humility and service and forgiveness and love and alleviation of suffering, so those characteristics of a human being are compatible with the demonstrative life of Jesus Christ. This is the most important foundation of all of my social and moral and ethical values.

Yong Tang: George Bush also said he is very faithful to Christianity. When asked about why he declared war against Iraq, he answered that it is the order from God.

Carter: I am not sure that is exactly what he said. But I don't doubt his faith. I wouldn't comment on that.

"I was in my peanut field yesterday"

Yong Tang: I know when you retire, you are doing a lot of different things. In addition to the work at the Carter Center, you are a University Distinguished Professor at Emory University and teach occasional classes there. You also teach a Sunday School class at Maranatha Baptist Church in Plains, Georgia. Being an accomplished amateur woodworker, you have occasionally been featured in the pages of Fine Wood Working magazine. You and your wife are also well-known for your work with Habitat for Humanity, a program that helps poor people to afford their first home. You also write books and paint pictures. You have so many things to do. It is really amazing! How do you manage such a tight schedule at such an old age?

Carter: Well, you know the people that arranged for this meeting, they arrange my life too.(Laughs) I tell them what I want to do, and they find the time and a place for me to do it. I have a very relaxed and easygoing life. We still live in the place where I was born, in Plains, Ga. My wife and I both came from this little town. Just 635 people in the whole town; 60 percent of them are black people. We still claim land that my father, my grandfather, and my great-grandfather owned.

Yong Tang: So you are still a farmer?

Carter: Yes. I was in my peanut field yesterday; I have my roots there. But we have a very exciting life, an adventurous, unpredictable life.

Yong Tang: Do you think a president should learn from you when he retires?

Carter: Each retired President has his own life to live. (END)

Bio:

Born on October 1, 1924, Jimmy Carter was the 39th President of the United States from 1977 to 1981, and the Nobel Peace laureate of 2002. Prior to becoming president, Carter served two terms in the Georgia Senate, and was the 76th Governor of Georgia from 1971 to 1975.

Carter's presidency saw the creation of two cabinet-level departments: the Department of Energy and the Department of Education. He established a national energy policy, removed price controls from domestic petroleum production, and advocated for less American reliance on foreign oil sources. He bolstered the Social Security system by introducing a staggered increase in the payroll tax. In foreign affairs, Carter pursued the Camp David Accords, the Panama Canal Treaties and the second round of SALT and established diplomatic relations with People's Republic of China. He explicitly identified the support of basic human rights as a critical component of American foreign policy. The final year of his term was dominated by the Iran hostage crisis, during which the United States struggled to rescue diplomats and American citizens held hostage in Tehran. Subsequently, Carter lost the 1980 presidential election to Republican Ronald Reagan.

After leaving office, Carter founded The Carter Center to promote peace, health, and human rights. He has traveled extensively to monitor international elections, conduct peace negotiations, and help provide the tools and resources to prevent and eradicate diseases in Africa and Latin America. (END)

By Yong Tang, a Washington-based correspondent of People's Daily