The foreign adviser in China's think tank (3)

W：You have done so many significant works, you in China, which one or several of them you think are the most successful and helpful for China's development?

P: I think you can do between two things in my work, one is they're actually empirical work that we've been doing, that's collecting data about minimum sizes, enterprises, carring out living conditions services and so on, and getting into the conditions of the earthquakes, victims, that's one aspect. It's difficult for me to know exactly what is the most used of those, because that disappears in a way into the general policy-making, social scientists often think that, well, we come with recommendation, and politicians (our policy makers ) should take that recommendation. But that's not how we work, because policy makers will have a large range of options, and our work fall into the thinking about all the options, and we don't often know all the options even, but we do provide material for them to think about. So it's difficult to say, from my point of view, what becomes the most important; the other thing that I should mention is basically the methodology. Because we're doing two things, one as I mentioned is the empirical thing, the other is how you actually collect data. I would like to think that is the perhaps the most important, because if I help with one survey doesn't really matter so much China is a very very large place and even we carry out large surveys, well, there are more work to be done. So I think the most important thing is helping people have the right knowledge about how you actually carry out these surveys and some empirical works so that you get better empirical data and future and for all the various. That is what I think myself is most important.

W: You have been doing the large scale of survey, so you must have a large scale of team.

P: Yeah, that's true. Although I would say that Chinese academy for social science and technology for development have a large team, but yes, when we did the living condition survey of the western regions, we had a few work organizations that I'm thinking include around 2,000 students and teachers of 22 different Chinese universities. And the search on earthquakes service each year employed around 100 people. So it becomes quite a large team, but the core team is the team at Chinese academy.

W: You have been concerning about the problems of labor mobility,migrant workers and disadvantage groups in China, do you think these problems are inevitable in China's developing road?

P: Well, I think the fact that you will have large scale of migration is inevitable, and perhaps more than other countries,you've been holding the migration from the countryside into the cities back, and you're now opening up for it, so there will be a large scale of migration,there is a large scale of migration.And would this be a problem? Yes, all such very large scale of social developments bring with them problems, but I would guess that they're manageable, depends quite a bit on the development model you're choosing as Chinese, because you could think of a situation where you decide, OK, we will continue making cheap coats for world and we will continue paying our workers not all that much. That's one possibility, you could do that, and you could at the same time educate small leads, and be a society very much like the US, devided into one very-educated part, and one part that is not so rich and not so well-off. That's a possibility. I think that will lead to problems. The other possibility is the one I think you're embarking on at that moment namely restructuring the economy, that is putting more emphasis into low education,more emphasis into changing the structure away from cheap labor,basic economy. And if you do that, I don't think you'll have or continue doing that, I don't think you'll have all that much problems. But adjusting economy at 1.3 billion people, yes, of course, there're problems there.

W: So you think the problems are some certain result of one of the developing stage?

P: Yes, I think it's not something one can easily avoid, the problem is how one holds these challenges with dignity and so on. I mean we know about the history in the west, how badly we solve those problems in our own countries, so the increasing question at the moment is how do you carry out social development on a large scale with rapid growth, and take care of people in the way that is better than what we did in the west. So far you probably have done so, although there's certain room for improvements.

W: According to what we know that you are not only a senior researcher, you also could be called an ambassador, cause you have done a lot of work to promote the communication and friendship between Norway and China. Why would you like to do so?

P: Well, I think the motivation for carring out research is complex. One is basically about learning new things, the other thing is putting that to work for the improvement of people's lives in a way, and there're two aspects to this improvement of people's lives, one is internal in China, and the other is China's relation to the rest of the world, and the rest of the world, that's France's, Norway's relation to China. I think that is, as the financial crisis show in a way, managing those relations in a transparent and good way is important and I think research can contribute there.

W: And there's one thing I would like to know that lots of westerners that they do not understand that much about China, and they have some bias about China,and do you think they should come to China to watch and see and check the developing level of China?

P: I think,well,yes, that will certainly be helpful,but I would guess that it would be even more helpful if it was possible to portray China in the west in a more balanced way. Certainly there're problems in China and the nature of Chinese or western media is to focus often on the negative aspects. And I guess that one important thing would be to have more communication about what is actually positive and what has happened during the last 30 years, during, I generally think get all those extremely positive in many ways. And I think that is happening is important to spread, this is, of course all related to your question about being an ambassador. I think that is one part of my work, yes.

W: As the winner of the Friendship Award, I know that you attended the ceremony of 60th anniversary of China, and what's your feeling about the parade at that day?

P:It was extremely impressive and there's something I will keep with me for the rest of my life,I think. It's...I mean I'm... It is of course....what should I say....it gives you special feeling being in the same room with Chinese top leaders,of course, they're all top leaders for a very large country, so that is nothing to hide that gives you a certain pride. But it's also very...sort of normal to see parade and also the banquet. So it's....and you get the feeling of the normative of the all. That is perhaps....it's difficult to express though.

W: OK,one more question. Since that a long time you have been cooperating with the Chinese people and what do you think about Chinese people and is there any possibility that you considering about yourself being a Chinese people.

P: What do I think of the Chinese people. Well, as I said I was trained as a social anthropologist, and for a social anthropologist all people are basically alike. On the other hand, I've been in many places and tell people I like more than others, and Chinese people probably is more those I like, well, that's the reason for working here, I mean I could work in all the places and do as well as what I do, but I spent more my time in China. So, obviously, there is something about how you are and how I am that goes together in a way. Becoming a Chinese citizen or...it's difficult to say. You know Norway gained it's independence in 1905, and so it tend to be so it's some nationalistic. And of course we 're not purely agonistic, but also Norway is one of the very richest country in the world, so it's a nice country to be a citizen of. So which doesn't mean that it wouldn't be nice to be a citizen of China also, but I don't know...I also feel very much attached to Norway and I think one of my roles is exactly to be a bridge between Norway and China.

W:OK,thank you Mr. Pedersen and congratulations to you again for you to win the Friendship Award. And thanks for watching, see you next time.

P:Thank you.

W:Thank you.

By People's Daily Online
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